SL: There seems to have been a brief moment where learning one thing (selvedge) changed the way people thought, but then the secondary move to learning about weave and weight never happened... and so on.

Kiya: It did, just on a far smaller scale. We're talking about something so specific here that you can't expect a wide audience to get it, or even care to get it.

SL: Absolutely true, I have spent hours with textile conservators and weavers and I still don't totally get weave structure. In any event, you have mentioned the desire for heavier than classic weight on the Dry Bones, and I'd like a few thoughts on what constitutes classic. What is too light, too heavy...

Kiya: Denim is mostly a reference to weave and dyes, and less about weight. Yet during the turn of the century, denim wasn't found to be anywhere nearly as heavy as it is now. Denim in the past has mostly ranged in weight from 10.5oz to about 14.75oz at the most. There were exceptions, but in general those weights were what was found to be denim. Now we're pushing 22oz with Iron Heart's newest black denim, which is a bit freakish but Iron Heart does it justice because they are so NOT a fashion company. They build indestructible products, from jackets to jeans to belts to shirts. In a sense they see themselves as a continuation of the true workwear companies that came about in the late 19th century up until the 50's.

SL: So, given your selection of 16oz for the jean, how that plays a roll in the development of the denim for the Dry Bones? What step in the process is that?

Kiya: We wanted something that was heavier than the classic weight denim, but not so heavy that it'd be stiff like a board. The stiffness of denim is affected by the weight, type of cotton, and weave pattern. When you start pushing 16oz you have to watch all the different aspects as it could end up being nearly unwearable. That's what's so unique about Iron Heart's 21oz denim, it's got a very soft hand to it and is extremely pliable considering it's weight.

SL: And that is a function of the cotton used?

Kiya: A combination of the long staple cotton they use that's a very pricey version of what comes from Zimbabwe and also how the denim is woven. It's a loose slack weave; if this same denim was a denser weave it'd easily push 26oz.