Things don't go long before the issue of the black squared toe shoe is brought up. It's a point that's been beaten to death, but this is a footwear designer, so it's going to come up. "When I started here, square toes were really big. They were Patrick Cox wannabe loafers but before that it started, it was a very Prada thing - then it started to trickle down. Now square toes are what our delivery bloke would wear. It's become really old fashioned and conservative but it'll swing round again. It always comes round, but it happens so much slower in menswear."

One pertinent point Little brought up was the lack of a guiding light in men's shoes. "There's not one really powerful force that does something and everybody goes 'wow look what they'll doing we'll follow that'. In fashion generally there are a few very powerful fashion houses that people will look at to see what's happening next, but in footwear there's nothing. It just kinda evolves I guess."

While Grenson is seen as work, enjoyable though it is, Little sees his own line as a passion project. There's no wholesale and there's no set timeline. "What I do now is go to the place best for each shoe. So if I want to do a driving shoe moccasin, I'll go to Florence and get them made in Florence. If I do a brogue, I'll make it in Northampton. So with my brand, I'll do anything If I want to do it. If I wanted to do a flip flop or an espadrille, I'd go to the best place to do it. So it's a lot looser. Although it is commercial in that I still want to sell them and pay the bills but it's not run in a commercial way. I just do shoes that I like."